Affichage de 4814 résultats

Description archivistique
2074 résultats avec objets numériques Afficher les résultats avec des objets numériques
MCOL/Van de Weyer Albums/Album 4/ff.75r-75v · Pièce · undated
Fait partie de Old Library

Autograph letter addressed from "Temple", signed, to Jean-Sylvain Van de Weyer, saying he is finding it impossible to get dinner on the table much before light, and therefore if he could have the pleasure of his company at some future occasion when no such contretemps is likely to occur.

Sans titre
MCPP/TK/4 · Pièce · 1968
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Album containing photographs of drawings, paintings and engravings by Thomas Kerrich which had been collected by Sir Owen Morshead and given to D. Peys Whiteley.

On the inside of the of the front cover is an obituary of Sir Owen Morshead from The Times, 3 June 1977.
Then there is the draft of a letter by Pepys Whitely, 4 January 1971, giving details about some of the painting in the book as well as a

(1) Magdalene College from the high walk [showing the Pepys Building and the Chapel), 1776
(2) Window of the room (or rooms) where the library was kept until 1734 [see MCPH/1/6/6]
(3) View of the Pepys Building with a large body of water covering the Fellows garden [there is debate between Morshead and Pepys Whiteley as to what this water is]
(4) Looking west from the Second Court
(5) Magdalene College close, the river and the road to Ely, 12 June 1778
(6) Transcript of a letter Kerrich wrote to his sister, 7 Nov 1767, describing his first arrival at Magdalene College [original is in the Corpus Christi Archive]
(7) North view of Cambridge Castle and part of the town, from the Roman road towards Kings hedges, between 11 and 12 noon, 17 April 1783
(8) Portrait of Thomas Kerrich by H.P. Briggs [see MCWA/A/64]
(9a) Portrait of Richard Hey by Thomas Kerrich [see MCWA/A/61]
(9b) Portrait of Martha Hey by Thomas Kerrich [see MCWA/A/60]
(10) [Blank]
(11) Gentlemen after dinner by Thomas Kerrich 1773 [underneath is written 'Coll. Mrs R.J.P. Wyatt, 1972]
(12 [Blank]
(13a) Drawing of a man holding a rope with 'Bury Suffolk 3 Kings in ? Market, Sept 3 1770' written by Thomas Kerrich
(13b) Drawing of a man with 'W. Brooke Maids Head Norwich, Aug 1771 T.K', written at the bottom [under both 12a and 12b is 'Coll. Mrs R.J.P. Wyatt, 1972'
(14) [Blank]
(15a) Old Goody Elgar of Dersingham, Norfolk
(15b) Old Susan Briggs
(16) [Blank}
(17a) John Smith of Magdalene (1744-1807)
(17b) Frances Thurston
(18) [Blank]
(19a) Will Heath, Magdalene, 1770
(19b) Brooks of Caius College
(20) [Blank]
(21a) Unnamed man, 1770
(21b) Unnamed man
(22) [Blank]
(23a) Female College Servant [resting her head on her hand with her eyes closed]
(23b) Woman in a hat holding a pair of glasses
(24) [Blank]
(25) Elizabeth Briggs, College Laundress [see MCWA/A/19]
(26) Blank]
(27) Head of a woman in a bonnet
(28) [Blank]
(29) Unnamed man, 1782
(30) [Blank]
(31a) Unnamed man
(31b) Child (Gooch is written underneath but the first name has been cut off)
(32) [Blank]
(33) Dr Hill, 1800
(34) Robert Glynn (executor of Kerrich's will)
(35) William Cole
(36) [Blank]
(37a) James Bentham, Prebendary of Ely
(37b) Isaac Milner
(38) Robert Master, Rector of Landbeach
(39a) Robert Masters, Rector of Landbeach [duplicate of 38]
(39b) Joseph Browne
(40) [Blank]
(41) William Pearce, Dean of Ely
(42) [Blank]
(43) Edward Waring
(44) [Blank]
(45) Thomas Wale
(46) [Blank]
(47) Road in Histon sowing windmill and fields, 1780 [Coll. Oliver Wyatt, 1971' is written underneath]

On the last pages is an obituary for Sir Owen Morshead from the College Magazine, No. 21 1976-1977

MCPP/TK/5 · Pièce · 25 November 1968 - 2 December 1968
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Four letters between Sir Owen Morshead & D. Pepys Whiteley about the deposit of photographs of the works of Thomas Kerrich [See MCPP/TK/4]. They debate the view by Kerrich of of the rear of the Pepys Building which shows water covering the Fellow Garden and conjecture what it could be.

MCPP/CSL/1/2/2 · Pièce · 19 January 1955
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter from C.S. Lewis to E.M. Trehern (matriculated in 1933).

It was certainly true that Chaucer's unintended successors valued his other works more then the Canterbury Tales but he had seen more about the Tales in major Elizabethan writers especially those which attacked the Medieval Church which was welcome to Protestants.

He also thought that Chaucer's comic work was better than his serious doggerel. But he might be wrong.

MCPP/CSL/1/2/8 · Pièce · 12-13 August 1963
Fait partie de Personal Papers

(1) Photocopy of a typed letter from C.S. Lewis to Jock Burnet, the Bursar and Dick, 12 August 1963.

Says he has left the books he wants sold. Asks them to review the College furniture before his own is sold. Says they can have anything they want for a keepsake. He was ashamed to ask them to do all this but Walter had to return to America almost at once and his brother was still away so he was at his wits end to know what to do.

(2) Photocopy of a typed letter from C.S. Lewis to Jock Burnett, the Bursar 13 August 1963.
To a degree he was ashamed but would have to accept his help. His temporary secretary could only stay in Cambridge a few days and he dared nit send his brother because of his infirmity. His books would be sorted into those that should be returned to Oxford and those that should be sold. Jock or Dick could keep any they wanted. The furniture was to be sold except a bathroom chair and carpet which belonged to the College. The oil painting of an old gentleman had to be packed and sent to the parish hall, Dundeln, Belfast.
Please could he tell his colleagues he was fit enough to be visited and would welcome it.

Attached to these photocopies is a letter from Richard Luckett (Pepys Librarian) saying he could find no evidence that Lewis returned to Magdalene during the summer of 1963.

MCPP/CSL/1/2/10 · Pièce · 6 January 1960
Fait partie de Personal Papers

(1) Newspaper cutting of a letter from C.S. Lewis setting out his ideas on standardised spelling, News Chronicle, 1959

(2) Handwritten letter from C.S. Lewis to Denis Glass, agreeing with his views that the need to reform spelling to make it standardised was unnecessary, 6 Jan 1960

Counterpart Lease (Saltfleet), 1620
MCCA/MCAD/4/1/18/1/8 · Pièce · 22 October 1620
Fait partie de College Archives

Parties: (1) Magdalene College (2) Roger Kilborne

Lease of a cottage, barn, and land in Saltfleet for 10 years from 1621

Counterpart Lease (Saltfleet), 1748
MCCA/MCAD/4/1/18/1/13 · Pièce · 24 June 1748
Fait partie de College Archives

Parties: (1) Magdalene College (2) Robert Andrew

Counterpart lease for a cottage, barn, and lands in Saltfleet for 10 years from 1748.

Lease (Saltfleet), 1788
MCCA/MCAD/4/1/18/1/17 · Pièce · 25 February 1788
Fait partie de College Archives

Parties: (1) Magdalene College (2) John Sewell

Lease for a cottage, barn, and lands in Saltfleet for 10 years from 25 March 1788.

MCPP/GM/3/2/1914/1 · Pièce · 1914
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Postcard from Ruth Turner to George Mallory at Charterhouse.

Full Transcript

We shall come on Saturday but if you exceed an hour by more than a very few minuits [sic] I am afraid we shall have to home before the end, because we have dinner party that night
Ruth Turner

Sans titre
MCPP/GM/3/2/1914/13 · Pièce · 22 May 1914
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter from Ruth Turner to George Mallory written from Ireland

Understands how difficult his job can be compared to Mr Pilsbury and Mr Porter. Talks of her time away so far and the activities she has been doing. She has not finished Scrambles yet. Discusses his sonnet. She intends to lunch at Garten. She hopes he will prefer to fish one day. She thanks him for the photograph.

Sans titre
MCPP/GM/3/2/1914/14 · Pièce · 22 May 1914
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter from Ruth Turner to George Mallory written from Ireland

She intends to climb the mountain. She has not needed to row for her father that day. Has been discussing wedding plans with Marjorie and Mildred, making fun of his clothing choices. Expresses her concern over climbing the mountain. Tells him of writing an Italian letter to Signorina. She has not heard from Miss Davies yet.

Next morning – Intends to go for a walk with Alison and Mildred. She is looking forward to reading his next letter.

Sans titre
MCPP/GM/3/2/1914/18 · Pièce · 29 May 1914
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter from Ruth Turner to George Mallory written from Ireland

Discusses her opinions on truth and reflects on growing up. She has changed her opinion of her book The Brothers Karamazov and has started reading William Morris by Mr Clutton-Brock. Expresses her desire to have Barnsley furniture in their house. Urges him to attend his sister’s wedding without her. Requests a photograph of Mary.

Sans titre
1915
MCPP/GM/3/1/1915 · Sous-série · July 1915 - 31 December 1915
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Increasing numbers of George’s friends were joining up to serve in the war effort in different capacities but when he enquired about doing so himself his Headmaster refused him permission as the Government wanted to retain its school teachers. By July Ruth was pregnant and George was restless so he went on a climbing trip to Pen y Pass with Hugh Heber-Percy and toured Yorkshire with his father.

On 18 September their first child was born - a daughter called Frances Clare (known as Clare).

His brother in law, the artillery officer Ralph Brooke, offered to help him get a commission in the Royal Artillery, if he could get permission from his Headmaster to join up. This was finally agreed and Brooke wrote to a friend who ran an artillery training course in Weymouth to recommend Mallory. The training was due to start in January 1916 so he travelled to Birkenhead to spend Christmas with his parents, then a few days climbing at Pen y Pass with Conor O'Brien and Herbert Reade before visiting his sister Avie in Mobberley. He did not spend Christmas with Ruth and Clare.

Letters
PP/GM/3/1/1915/1-9 Pen y Pass (July and August)

PP/GM/3/1/1915/10-11 Touring Yorkshire with his father (August)

PP/GM/3/1/1915/12-13 Pateley Bridge on his own (August)

PP/GM/3/1/1915/14 On the train to Cambridge (August)

PP/GM/3/1/1915/15 On the train from Birkenhead after having spent Christmas with his parents (December)

PP/GM/3/1/1915/16-17 Pen y Pass (December)

1916
MCPP/GM/3/1/1916 · Sous-série · 1 January 1916 - 31 December 1916
Fait partie de Personal Papers

January 1916 - began his military training in Weymouth.
They rented out the Holt and Ruth and Clare moved to a cottage near Dorchester and then a more suitable place in Abbotsbury (a village 5 miles from Weymouth) so that they could spend their weekends together.

1 April - George moved from Weymouth to Lydd and Ruth returned to Westbrook. He only had Sundays off but they found a tiny flat in Littlestone where they could stay together.

4 May - George was assigned to the 40th Siege Battery and left for France. After a week he took the troop train to join the battery which was positioned in the northern sector of the western front a short distance from the front line.

Ruth remained at Westbrook and they let the Holt firstly to Mr and Mrs Green and then to the O’Malleys.

George was a Second Lieutenant meaning he was third in command behind the commanding officer Captain Lithgow and Lieutenant Bell. His responsibilities included taking charge of the firing of the guns and manning the observation posts (O.P.s) from where the fire could be directed. As he spoke fluent French he was also tasked with buying provisions at the local markets.

29 May – the unit moved south to ‘a hot part of the line’. A British infantry attack was imminent and the battery had to haul its guns into position with horses.

30 May - when the attack was launched the battery fired off more than 600 shells.

14 June – the battery moved south again and took up position near Albert, just north of the River Somme.

1 July – launch of the British offensive at the Somme. The battery had been firing at the German line for a week and at 6.30 on the morning of 1 July the firing intensified.

6 July - the battery fired all day in support of another British attack.

15 July – he saw flame throwers being used by the French for the first time.

29 July – George and 5 of his men went up the front line and after renewing a telephone wire they were crossing open ground when they heard an incoming shell and dived for cover. The two men who were carrying the coil of wire were moving more slowly and were killed.

Mid August – George was sent to rest camp near Amiens for 10 days. He started writing a novel, later to be called The Book of Geoffrey.

26 September - the British captured Thiepval (which had been their goal on 1 July)

December – sent home for 10 days leave returning to France on Boxing Day and arriving back at the battery on 29 December.

1917
MCPP/GM/3/1/1917 · Sous-série · 2 January 1917 - 4 November 1917
Fait partie de Personal Papers

January - On his return to France following leave George Mallory was transferred to Brigade Headquarters, 3 miles behind the front line. He was appointed as assistant to the colonel but as the colonel hated delegating he only had menial chores to carry out. He had to learn to ride a horse and accompany the colonel on inspections. He had a batman who had been a barber in civilian life.

February – brief assignment as a liaison officer to a nearby French unit.

End of March – he applied to return to his battery which had moved to a new position. The Germans were starting to retreat and talk was of the Americans joining the war.

He was increasingly getting pain in his ankle making walking hard. The doctor said it was the result of a previous break in 1909 which hadn’t healed properly and he would need an operation after the war. The ankle worsened and he was sent home for the operation in London followed by recovery at Westbrook.

July - his ankle was better enough for him to visit the island of Arran with David Pye and Will Arnold-Forster [first time he had been to the Scottish hills] having first spent a few days with Cosmo Gordon's family.

September – army doctors passed him fit for duty. He was sent to an army camp at Avington Park, near Winchester, to train on the new sixty-pound guns. He borrowed a motorcycle and visited Ruth at the weekends. She was nearing the end of her pregnancy with their second daughter Berridge (known as Berry) who was born on 16 September.

Early Oct – made a full Lieutenant and undertook a course for newly promoted officers.
On his return from Westbrook on his motorcycle he cashed into a gatepost crushing his right foot. He was in hospital for a month and took another month before he would walk on it.

End of 1917 – passed fit for service but instead of returning to France he took a battery commander’s course at the artillery school at Lydd. This school came under the command of his brother-in-law Ralph Brooke. Ruth and the children went with him and stayed with Ralph, Mary and their three children.

Christmas 1917 – spent at Westbrook.

1923
MCPP/GM/3/1/1923 · Sous-série · 16 January 1923 - 23 March 1923
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Outline of 1923 (Jan-Mar; Oct)

January - George Mallory travelled to the United States and Canada to begin a lecture tour.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/1
Onboard the SS Olympic travelling to New York to give a series of lectures.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/2
Staying at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York. He describes his press agent Keedick, provides his impressions of New York City, and mentions his writing work.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/3
In Washington, D.C. Discusses his lectures and writings and describes his experiences with American audiences.

February - Continues the lecture tour. Describes having dinner American Prohibition. Learns to ski.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/4
In New York City. Describes his dinner experience during American Prohibition, reports on his speaking engagements and mentions being interviewed. He attended an American Alpine Club dinner and other social luncheons. Shares his impressions of New York.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/5
In Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Reports on recent lecture in New York and describes social visits to friends in New York and Canada.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/6
Hotel Flanders, New York City. Had spent the weekend learning to ski in Canada and reports ‘bad news’ from MCpress agent Keedick regarding lecture tour.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/7
Harvard Club, New York City. Attends a dinner party with the American Alpine Club and spends weekends in Long Island.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/8
Sheffield, Massachusetts and Boston, MA – Describes his impressions of New York and Boston where he attended an opera.

March - Continues the lecture tour, visits Niagara Falls, shares his disappointment of lecture tour results, and is famously quoted in New York Times article, ‘Because it’s there’ (March 18, 1924).

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/9
Toledo Club, Toledo, Ohio. Says Boston was rather charming and that there was another big audience in Philadelphia.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/10
Hotel Seneca, Rochester, New York [with postmarked envelope]. Had given lectures in Boston, New York, and Philadelphia. Describes a trip to Niagara Falls, and discusses finances.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/11
Chicago, Illinois. Was onboard a train. Due to give a lecture in Iowa City which was the furthest west but was disappointed not to be lecturing in Chicago.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/12
Somerset Club, Boston, MA. Shares plans for returning home and provides thoughts on his ‘American visit’.

October - Moving house and planning to return to Mount Everest

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/13
Is writing after lecture tour to Ruth in Cambridge, before their move into Herschel House in Cambridge, where Ruth would later receive news of George's death. Most of this letter is about plans for moving into Herschel House, including moving logistics and design choices. However, the end of the letter discusses his pending decision to re-join the Mount Everest Committee and commit to returning to Mount Everest in 1924.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/6 · Pièce · 15 February 1923
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter to Ruth Mallory from New York [Waldorf-Astoria, New York letterhead crossed out and ‘change of address to Flanders Hotel, 135 W 47th St. is written in Mallory’s hand]

He had moved hotel from the Waldorf-Astoria to the Flanders Hotel which was cheaper, and was where Reginald Poel was also staying. He’d spent the morning writing letters about his engagements and had sent his manuscript to the American publisher of the second Everest book who would type two copies one of which he would send to Arnold.

Went for the second time to the Morgan library to see the Boswell Letters and then had tea with Edith Watlen at the hotel.

He had spend the weekend in the Lawrentian hills at St. Marguerite with John Williams who was teaching him to ski. He broke a ski on the first run but managed to hire some. It was hard work but glorious fun. Clear days were delightful but it was very cold at night and most Canadians did not enjoy the cold. He stayed with the Williams who were kind but had now returned to New York which was depressing.

The lecture tour wasn’t coming off as the public interest wasn’t wide enough. He only had three more lectures arranged. Asks her not to be terribly disappointed as they would be poorer than he had hoped for a bit.

He had attended an interesting dinner party where there were two men in favour of France’s policy in the Rhur which was unusual in America. There was a rumour that Turkey had sunk a French submarine. He said it would be good if something like that would bring America into European affairs. There was no continuity in American foreign policy but they were so light hearted about the faults of their own politics that he despaired of it getting better.

Was glad to receive copies of the Manchester Guardian as there was no foreign news in the New York newspapers. Lack of understanding of the issues even among the educated but expected to find a different ‘mental atmosphere’ in Boston.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/10 · Pièce · 8 March 1923
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter to Ruth Mallory from ‘Hotel Seneca, Rochester, New York’ [Letterhead], with envelope

Planned to sail home on the Saxonia, March 31. Makes arrangements for meeting her when he arrived.

He had given a lecture in a museum in Philadelphia to a good audience, then a took train to Toledo where he gave a lecture before travelling to Buffalo. He saw Niagara and had arrived in Rochester where he was due to give a lecture that evening before leaving for Chicago. He then planned to go to Iowa City for a lecture but was disappointed it was far from his dream of seeing the Pacific Coast.
Had two more lectures booked in Hanover, New Hampshire, and Boston and possibly in one or two schools which was a very
disappointing affair.

Planned to make a detour on his return to New York and visit his Uncle Wilfred in Toronto.

He was sorry she was worried about money and promised to write to Hinks at once. The garage was more expensive than he anticipated. They would have to be careful about money. He was doing all he could to make some. He had written an article for a magazine called Asia and he thought the Everest Committee owed him about £180 and he had not been paid yet for the Everest book. The was some money due form the lectures he had given and there was a possibility of lecturing in England although he wasn’t much disposed to take on more than an occasional one.

He hoped Clare and Beridge had received the post card he sent from Niagara. The weather was bad when he visited with an east wind followed by a blizzard. Even so the rushing water was wonderfully impressive. The Canadian Horseshoe Falls were the best. The American falls were dirty and disappointing and much under the influence of the town Niagara which was abdominally smelly and smoky.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/12 · Pièce · 23 March 1923
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter to Ruth Mallory written on ‘Somerset Club, Boston’ letterhead writing paper

He would soon be on the Saxonia on his way home. He had been busy with a few lectures and had greatly enjoyed Princeton. Back in New York he had seen Allston Burr, interviewed pressmen, and lectured at St. Paul’s School. There was currently 8 to 10 ft of snow melting steadily.

He was sorry she was still having trouble with the car and that being stuck near the top of Firth Hill with petrol trouble was very bad.

He agreed with her suggestion that she wouldn’t come to meet him further than Godalming Station.

He wasn’t altogether disappointed by the American visit. It had been intensely interesting and had given him a real insight into Americans attitudes and opinions. He liked them on the whole very much, far more than he expected. They were extraordinarily modest and humble and pathetically anxious to be thought of well by English people.

He ends the letter to attend a luncheon party.

MCPP/GM/3/1/1923/5 · Pièce · 9 February 1923
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Letter to Ruth Mallory from ’95 Arlington Avenue Westmount, P.Q.’ [Letterhead] [‘i.e.at the Basil Williams Montreal’ is written in Mallory’s hand]

Brief Summary
Reports on recent lecture in New York, complains of his lectures being reported as Anti-Prohibition propaganda, and describes social visits with friends in New York and Canada.

Detailed Summary
He was delighted to be in Montreal with friends including Mrs Williams, who had visited the Holt with Evelyn Clutton-Brock whilst he was away on the 1921 expedition. His fortunes had changed from hateful N.Y. His first lecture in New York had not been encouraging with technical difficulties caused by a 2nd rate operator and the hall full theatre had been depressing. However, all the members of the American Alpine Club who had attended the dinner were in the audience and they went away saying nice things. Afterwards they had gone to a hotel to eat ices which was a pleasant little party consisting of the Wethams, Mrs Colden Sanderson, Frisken, Poel and an actress friend of his.

It was important for his lectures to have good press but when he read the papers at breakfast there was almost nothing. A New York Times had 1/3rd of a column but it was turned into Anti-Prohibition propaganda. The Tribune gave a very good and sympathetic report.

He had lectured at a Country Club outside the city which was a dull affair before catching a train to Montreal. Had a good walk up the mountain with a wonderful view of the southern branch of St Lawrence and Montreal. The countryside was all snow and ice and it had been -10 when he had arrived. The Canadians didn’t like the cold as too many days in t took it out of one.

His next lecture was in Detroit (Michigan) but Toronto fell through. Keedick’s business was very badly run. He planned to spend the weekend with a friend, Monsieur Williams, whom he had known and liked at Charterhouse at a winter sports place. He planned to learn to ski from John Williams who was aged aged 16 and thought him a promising pupil on skis. He said the difficulty was to learn to stop, and until one had you just had to fall down.

He was much more cheerful and put it down to staying there with delightful people instead of by himself in a hotel. He missed her and found it much harder being without her there than in India.

His lecture there had gone very well and the audience were very good natured and amused.

1914
MCPP/GM/3/2/1914 · Sous-série
Fait partie de Personal Papers

Ruth Turner's letters to George Mallory, to whom she became engaged in April 1914 and married on 29 July 1914. They first met at a dinner in the Autumn of 1913 at the house of Arthur Clutton-Brock, a lawyer and writer who lived in Hindhead Road not far from Charterhouse School where George was teaching. Ruth’s mother Mary had died six years before and Ruth and her two sisters Marjorie and Mildred lived with their father, Hugh Thackeray Turner, at Westbrook, an elegant house on the far side of the Wey Valley. They met socially several times over the next few months and in March Thackeray Turner invited George to accompany him and his daughters on a trip to Italy. George and Ruth fell in love during the week long’s holiday and became engaged in May.

Shortly after the engagement Ruth left to accompany her family on a long standing pre arranged holiday in Ireland based in County Donegal. George and Ruth pledged to write letters to each other daily when separated.

George and Ruth got married on 29 July 1914, George’s father conducted the ceremony and their best man was Geoffrey Young. Due to the worsening situation in Europe they could not spend their honeymoon in the Alps as they had hoped but instead went to North Devon and then camping on the Sussex coast.

Undated
MCPP/GM/3/2/Undated · Sous-série
Fait partie de Personal Papers

There are four undated letters and one page from a letter. Is has not been possible to date these.